Pop music is fake and it sucks.

By "pop" i mean modern crap songs by justin timberlake/madonna/ other POSERS.

They all use crappy computer programs to do MOST of their work.

I think the pioneers like michael jackson are okay, but the other "musicians" are crap

MOST of them are overrated and rock/metal is fading.

Thats MY opinion.

whats urs?

Sorry if I am sounding rude

A lot of people don't like it. We are forced to hearing it as that is what MTV/VH1 play. I just listen to my IPOD and Internet Radio Stations these days to avoid all that junk.

I don't get the assumption that metal music would be overshadowed by mainstream music. If you really think of it, metal music has been rising ever since grunge died.

I agree that a lot of "pop" music is pretty shallow and of little musical worth, however, there are a quite a few people working within popular music that are very talented individuals. So personally I think that even if I don't like the style of music I'm still willing to aknowledge the quality aspects that are present.

I basically agree with everything Orzandotl said, except the bit about metal/rock fading.

They have getting more popular which sucks because all the rock and metal these days (That i've heard) is mostly whiny little screamo/emo bands or bands like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-x95Q0SJfY

I also think that the standards have gone down somewhat, when you have a lot of bands in rock and metal these days who don't have guitar solos.

:lol:

by fading, i meant like, it's fading compared to pop lol

:P

and the world isn't screaming for queen/led zepelin


wait, does that make sense?

lol

I don't know how I should interpret that post of yours, Steve...

I despise emo/screamo too, simply because the music is boring and predictable. And the lyrical content is as boring as Cannibal Corpse's lyrics.

Then again, Job for a Cowboy is a deathcore band, which is way different from emo and screamo. My opinion on emo/screamo applies to deathcore as well, though, so I'll have to agree with you on that one.

But saying the standards aren't as high just because many bands don't include guitar solos is just stupid. Listen to Opeth and tell me they are a bad or a "low-quality" band (in an objective manner) because many of their songs don't employ guitar solos.

by fading, i meant like, it's fading compared to pop lol

This really isn't true either. Rap music has been going downwards for quite some time, and while pop is still making "progress", it's doomed to fall soon enough. Thus I believe that after these emo/screamo bands break through big time, they'll make way for the underground scenery.

The golden rule: The point of mainstream anything is to appeal to as many people as possible.

To put it bluntly, I think that the entire argument that metal is fading is just dumb. It's just not true. It might look that way from the mainstream perspective, because generally, metalcore is the popular type of metal now (not emo/screamo, neither of these things are anywhere near popular. Pop/rock declared emo is what "emo" is today, it's not real emo. Screamo is a very small fragment of emo, and modern screamo is, again, pop rock/alternative with more aggressive screaming.), but that's completely ignoring the underground. Metal hasn't ever evolved in the mainstream as well as it has in the underground, why should it be expected to now? From what I've seen, most subgenres of metal still have new bands being formed and material being written at a fairly high level.

As for the musical merits of pop music, well, it's still music. Except it's music made and produced as a commodity (I feel like deja vu right now...). Just listen to what you like, and don't judge other people based on their music tastes, because there's someone more underground than you out there calling your music shallow. Judging musical talent by genre is also very demeaning and elitist.

Also, there are compositional reasons that they don't include guitar solos, it's not a lowering of standards. If anything, technical death metal, at least in the underground, takes the standards and demands them to be higher. Or maybe it's just a development of school friends wanting to rock with their c*cks out without spending years developing speed and accuracy.

Metal was very close to being mainstream in the 80's. Just slightly under 80's pop. Guitar solos were considered cool in that time. So much different now.

That was mostly glam metal, with a certain few thrash bands getting mainstream success. Similar to how it is today, with metalcore, where breakdowns are the peaking point of the song instead of the guitar solo, just not as close to mainstream. That has to do with the urbanization of pop culture more than anything, though. (I'm pressed for time, so apologies for rushing this post.)

By the way, just for CD, I do not deem this thread tr00.

I find the assumption that Metal or Rock as a form of music being more 'legit' than Pop or Rap flawed hoplessly. MOre pure for that matter too.

For example Metalcore, Nu-Metal and Hair Metal. These forms of music were just as industry promoted and just as funded by record companies as the pop muisc of the day, because they knew they could make money from it.

Metal has its mainstream, Pop has its mainstream as do all other genres of music, record companies wouldnt promote such artists if the didnt know they could make a return on it.

Orz the unfortunate reality is that its all based on ones and zeros and profit margins. There are some amazingly talented people out there who produce some medocre crap purely because they have been told by a producer thats what sells, or they are willing to go with a trend to make a quick buck, and give the economic climate i dont blame them in the least.

I myself love metal and dearly would love to form a Prog Metal band with a fairly spiritually/eastern philosophically inspired direction... but that shit doesnt sell, which is why, by the same token after music school i hope to get work as a session musican doing whatever where ever as long as the cash is good so i CAN fund my hairbrained schemes. Its just logical buisness sense man.

As Lektro said, at least people are listning to music. I remember and interview with Paul Masvidal of Death/Cynic fame being asked by someone who obviously was out t get pop 'what music is the ass hole of the universe?'

He replied: 'I havent heard it yet'

And thats a guy who has been in underground tech death bands since highschool and used to bide his time doing music for movies and TV shows... You all remember 'that 70's show' well that was him and Shaun Reinard.

Music doesnt have to be technical to be legit, music doesnt have to be a lot of things, its like any form of art or asthetic things... one mans Browns sound is another mans 'OMG my ears are bleading' sound.

Peace CD

When I think about it, I actually like a vast amount of music that is classified as pop music. I see nothing wrong with writing a song that appeals to a wide audience. It is the quality of songwriting that counts not what genre it belongs to.

i can't stand rap, if my MP3 player isn't charged, i'm forced to listen to it on the bus of a morning, its just fast talking to computer generated noises, the most it takes is word memorization, anybody without a speech impediment can do it; as for pop, its just as bad, extremely little to no talent is needed for this crap, how anybody views it as music is beyond me.

I couldn't agree more that Pop and Rap sucks completely. and Most of the new or "nu" metal bands have a single formula for "a kickass riff" that would be : "let's tune our guitars down so low that they can't hear our mistakes when we move across the E(B) string. and we don't need a solo, because none of us can shred!"

thats the way I see it. I'm so disappointed in what mainstream music is today it's not even funny. I'm jealous of the baby boomers getting to live through the 80's when it was cool to shred neoclassical on guitar.

there might be some hope for metal, but In the mean time we'll be stuck listening to Lil Wayne talk about his "Grillz" and fucking hummer with 12 foot rims...

ugh

I think you're completely missing the point about what rap really is. Rap is a poetic spoken word art put to a strongly rhythmic backbeat. It doesn't have to be about whatever urban topics relating to get rich quick and get out that you hear on the radio, that is just the mainstream aspect of the culture coming out in the lyrics. In case you haven't lived in a lower class, poverty stricken area, you should know that it's very difficult. I personally cannot speak from experience, but I have friends who moved to my area from the inner city, and they can attest to this. However, the pop culture depiction is highly romanticized to sell more stuff. The lyrics in mainstream 'urban' music are pretty unimportant, I would say, it really doesn't matter what you choose to write your songs about (or have someone write them for you). Judging popular rap based on lyrical content is a naturally biased argument that accomplishes nothing.

While I am not a typical or heavy fan of rap music, one artist who stands out to me is Immortal Technique. It's a lot different than what you might see Lil Wayne told to rap about. Two good examples are Dance With the Devil and You Never Know. Even if you don't like it, it's difficult to deny the lyrical quality, both in technical details and, especially, in importance/meaning. I'd love to see that kind of lyrical quality in, say, metal music, but that doesn't happen that much.

The nu metal rant there is pretty demeaning, tay, who put you on the high pedestal? :P Even if it's not classically structured or theory blasted, it's still music, something that cannot and is not better or worse than other examples. Their metal riffs descend from the simpler grooves of the 90s metal, which focused less on thrashy choppiness and jaw dropping chops and more on rhythmic groove, something fundamentally different, but not worse. The guitars are not tuned down to mask mistakes, they are tuned down to get the lower and chunkier sound desired by the bands, saying that it's just to cover up mistakes is incredibly degrading, and it's really not fair. I already covered why I thought solos lost importance, but I did forget the grunge influence, that made flashy guitar solos uncool and made it cool to be personal and simple, blah blah blah. That's cool, it ended the pissing contest known as 80s shred. Songs do not need to have solos. In my opinion, songs should only have solos if it benefits the composition, not because it's the status quo. If it happens to benefit every song, ok, cool. It benefits old thrash metal because it's a largely static genre where the songs use solos as breaks, to differentiate from verses and choruses that, chances are, are fairly similar. If modern metal bands prefer using breakdowns where everyone can be involved in breaking the pace, instead of having one person get to show off, that's cool.

Instead of bringing down other forms of music that you don't like as inferior because they don't have things that you like in them that are present in your own personal genre choices, try opening your mind for a change. You get to spend less time being angry, and more time on important things. Everyone wins.

By the way, I changed my golden rule that I stated above, because I didn't like the way it painted popular music as watered down, when that isn't always the case. Sometimes it's the case, but the goal is to appeal to the masses, not to water down something else, and the original golden rule obscured this purpose. My apologies.

I think you may need to take the rose tints off... why do you think guys like Metallica created the music they did, they hated their mainstream.

As with your comment of Nu-Metal bands not being able to shred, the unfortunate reality is that quite a few of them could and can. Sure quite a few didnt know, but i refer you to my comment about going with what makes you money. Mic Tompson can, i dont dig it but he can... hell even the guys from Korn can it pains me to say that.

Dino Cazrez... well look at what he does now with Divine Heresy... once again not me, but hes got chops.

Im not arguing that you arent entitled to you oppinon, i just think that its missing some ballance based on apparent fact.

Peace CD

I usually don't empasize the lyrics that much. It's the musical sounds that bring my interest. Thus why I tend to like instrumentals and neo-classical metal. :D That Immortal Technique song is really depressing.

OK after looking back at my post I realize that it was not a fair argument.I do appreciate other genre's of music. and I do enjoy some... dare I say it Rap. but more old school stuff when they Did speak about real things like lektro explained. and some new stuff is Catchy I'll admit.

:)

Now you are going overboard. Liking some rap? That stuff is pollution to my ears. I respect them but will not enjoy their rapping. lol

Thank god you not live here.There music here that calls TurboFolk...or Grand.Man,that is the bigest shit that anyone can make.Its music that listen all my country,people from 10 to 60 years.Its terible music,anyone can make it here,and stupid pople like it.I get wery mad when i think on this.

Exactly

ok when I said some I mean like 2 songs lol

What Lektro said.

All genres have their good and bad. Give me a well-crafted pop song over a bad/cliche metal song (which there are a lot of) any day.

Also, I would add that the music industry is changing drastically, and most great artists, regardless of genre, won't be found in the mainstream because they focus on their respective niches. There's a lot of great rap out there with interesting music and lyrics, but you won't find it on MTV

The internet has changed everything...well, a lot of things...

I define a mainstream genre like Pop as "lacking of soul". Why? Because the whole genre is runned by corporate "fat cats" finding individuals with decent voices so they can profit from these by making simple melodies in a digitalized format. Actually, I'm not bashing the managers and record companies, because they are the ones who do most of the work. The Pop artist he - or - herself only does around 20% of the actual work. The rest is up to the manager.

The dynamics of a unique Pop song are quite simple; compose a melody, considered easy followed by the average listener. This melody should also contain scalar elements that separate themselves from other usual theoretical patterns within the local society. However, the dynamics of a new Pop song, not sung by someone considered "a pioneer", are even more simple; Copy the melody pattern from its predecessor, but add a new hint of scalar patterns.

As when it comes to Rap, I don't have any further arguments. The songs where the artist sings in a fast tempo about themselves in terms of personal financial success, are considered as Pop music in my opinion, because this style of singing has been so popuralized that the style has become mainstream.

The real genre is based on feel, because the music style originates from complains about society, not about the rythms and music. I think Rap has suffered just as many bad stereotypes as Metal.


Uh, I was pretty woozy (NO, NOT DRUNK!) when I wrote this, so if you were to see things within the text that seemed unlogical and strange, you've got the answer. :blink:

Eurovision taked place this week.

That's the kind of pop that I don't like, but even there you can find some good song. No matter if it's a single melody and easy or common patterns: you can make good songs only with that too.

I think it's better judging separate songs than styles. Good songs make an style triumph rather than the chasracteristics of the style itself. But I can understand people who says pop sucks, since a bigger amount of commercial crap is made in pop styles.

I genuinely believe there was not a single good song in the Eurovision yesterday. The bar has gone down wildly.

And I agree with you on this. I try to never judge artists or songs by their genre only according to the majority of the genre. A genre itself is not bad even if the artists are.

My brother listens to lil waynee and kayne west in the car and rihanna and pisses the hell out of me. Not only that the whole Daughtry thing is the most annoyingest songs ever. Those of you not living in the states probably have less pop crap right?

haha, in korea, rock and metal is gone


they ONLY listen to pop

at least in the states, metal is still alive.... :(

:angry:

You are incorecct.

Brittan has one of the largest Pop music industries in the world. Its not only america that has pop/rap.

Japan, China and Korea also have very very large pop industries as well as India.

A Brit made Pop idol and sold it to the Yanks... thats why Simon Cowel is on the shows judges... he owns the format.

At lest the pop industry gives people jobs... and i dont mean the people who get the paycheck and appear in all the pictures in an albums inslevee, i mean all the people who dont.

in korea, metal is known as hardcore death metalish stuff with creepy people