Which person or band would you say should be rightly credited with being the main inspiration/creator of the neoclassical genre?

Yngwie? Ritchie Blackmore/Rainbow?/ Uli Jon Roth?

I know a few guitarists (but not me) who would argue a case for Randy Rhoads or would you say to look no further than the likes of Bach and Vivaldi as being fundamentally the biggest influence for this genre?

I would say Randy Rhodes got the ball rolling but it was really Yngwie who made it popular.

Interesting. The Rhoads argument has always been a controversial thing between me and some guitarists I know.

For me it has to be Yngwie. Ritchie Blackmore may have stuck in the odd classical passage with Rainbow and even in his Deep Purple days but in no way was anything he did as full on as the first Rising Force album. Every time I'm on youtube and watch a shred/neoclassical clip it is Yngwie's name which you see in the comments section i.e everybody is always comparing these compositions/guitarists to him. However I do admit that Randy was exploring into the classical side of things before his life was tragically cut short.

Maybe first it would be useful to try to identify what constitutes the neo-classical style.

I suppose basically it comes down to using techniques and ideas melodically and harmonically dirived from classical music - particulaly the Baroque period, but also including the Classical and Romantic period.

To me the most used features of classical music in the neoclassical style are heavy use of arpeggios, the harmonic minor scale, diminished scales and arpeggios and pedal tone sequences. Also Bachian chord movement. (I'm no expert on this by any means though).

Although Uli Jon Roth and Randy Rhodes were definately influenced by elements of the above I think it was Malmsteen that brought it altogether in an overtly Classically influenced rock guitar style.

That's just my 2 cents. :)

Well, Yngwie was the first artist to actually be part of the Neo-Classical genre. Randy, Ritchie, Uli, and others were definitely on the path, but none really had that sound that Yngwie had. As far as I'm concerned, as soon as Rising Force came out, Neo-Classical was on the map. Steeler and Alcatrazz had Yngwie, but even then, it wasn't quite the same because you either had a bunch of "Valley Dudes" or musicians who simply hadn't explored that path.

Jason Becker.

I don't think it was Becker, he is my favourite guitarist but Yngwie had been around for a while before Becker came on the scene. Although, to the people that actually know who he is (Not as many as i would like) he is a massive influence.

Agreed. Yngwie's first album with the band Steeler came out in 1983 which was 4 years before the first Cacophony album. Jason Becker would have been 13 years old at the time of Yngwie's first release.

Makes you wonder what would have happened if yngwie had got into knitting jumpers for the harsh Swedish winters instead of learning to play rock guitar. :D

We'd still be in the pentatonic era! Y'know just past Jurrasic! :P

I don't think any one man can be credited for something that wasn't created by one man, but actually many.

I mean you could argue that Wagner was very aggressive and therefore had similarities with metal, making that some form of beginning to neo-classical metal.

At the time... Chuck Berry was closer to the genre than any other musicians were.

Anyways, the point I am trying to make is that you cannot decide who is the first to do something when you cannot define what that thing is to the exact. and the reason you cannot define exactly what neo-classical metal is because it is art, which is subjective.

You can find neo-classical elements anywhere, but when you want to ask who as the first pure neoclassical metal musician, it all depends on where you draw the line which is.... subjective.

Enough of my usually philosophical rambling on aesthetics.

I think Yngwie Malmsteen is the king of the genre personally. He is the first I can think of that really can have his music transcribed for an orchestra and have it sound like classical music. Like... classical but on a different instrument.... but that again, what is neo-classical, if its only defined as partially classical than Ritchie Blackmore would fit the bill, as well as Uli Jon Roth, Alex Lifeson, Brian May, Rick Wakeman.

It might be interesting to know when the term 'Neoclassical Rock/Metal' was first used. And to whom it was refering. Probabley impossible to track down though.

Yeah good idea Hurricane but as you say it might prove tricky. I'm gonna do some detective work. Maybe Devon could shed some light on this as he recently did a Wikpedia article on the genre.

The first time I heard the term was when Kerrang did their 'New Guitar Masters' features back in the mid eighties.

Anyone else got any ideas or info on this?

This is all I know about early use of the term, and I'm afraid its not very helpful, but I will do some looking around because that would interesting to know.

Taken from interview:

You've obviously heard the term "Neo Classical" being applied to your music.

YM: I didn't hear it till they started talking about my music.

Does it mean anything to you?

YM: No. It means "new" in a classical form.


Here is the rest:
http://www.modernguitars.com/archives/001060.html

Thanks for the link Devon - intresting interview. I love Yngwie's pout on the third photo down! lol

Hi guys. I just climbed aboard last night, and you guys rock! I've always been a Neo-Classical freak, and living here in the sunny south, have almost noone to talk to who can even pronounce Yngwie's name, much less talk shop. This post here on origin of Neo I feel is dead on! I was listening to Roth, Rhoads, and Schencker in high school hoping to take it further.( I don't know if Iron Maiden, later Scorpions, Gary Moore or other Thin Lizzy guitarists would apply here) Yngwie totally did it for me. Steve Howe is really impressive,but not in the same way. From there to Tony MacAlpine, Vinnie Moore, a little Satch & Vai thrown in. But let's face it.Not to be negative, I like it DARK! And I don't mean Metallica.

Hi Cass and welcome to the site. Some interesting stuff you posted. Nice one! :)

Hello Cass and welcome to the forum. So what dark music would be your prefered listening choice?

Good to have you onboard! :D

Thanx guys. Seems everyone prides themselves on versatility. To be honest, listening to Roth, Yngwie, Blackmore, Paganini, DiMeola, Bartok, Miroslav Vitous, etc. While being Classical, jazz, and "Rock/Metal" obviously borrow from the same. Or are at least influenced.Even Tull and Pink Floyd to an extent, (the latter two I consider "European blues") I guess this is what I mean by "Dark". Seems the more I read here the more I remember I've forgotten. So help me out and jog my "dark" memories. Oh yeah here's one.21st Birthday and listening to both ELP's and Mussourgsky's "Pictures at an exhibition" on acid. Creepy. Had read up on it. "Lead to skulls illuminated gently from within." Yeah it stayed with me. Wasn't he a friend of Liszt? Or am I confusing him with another of MacAlpine's influences?

Oh, while I'm here, want to pay homage/tribute to Jason Becker. His and Marty Friedman's reference on "Cacophony" (There goes Mike Varney again, KUDOS!) later led me to Kitaro and Andrea Vollenweider. Yes I know not our Neo regime but inspiring nonetheless. Shalom!

Sounds like good stuff cass, although the Pictures at an Exibition experience sounds a bit intense!!

If you like some dark classics have you heard Sibelius's 'Swan of Tuonela' or Rachmaninov's 'Isle of the Dead'?

I suppose we are going a bit off topic here though - maybe worth continuing discussion in the classical music section?

I quite like Pictures at an Exhibition. I used to have Mr. Very Modest Mussorgsky's original and then the rock version released by ELP in the seventies.

Pre Malmsteen neoclassical rock?

Uli Jon Roth; Sky overture
Eddie Van Halen; Eruption
Richie Blackmore
The Beatles; She's so Heavy

Uli Jon Roth and Blackmore definately.

Van Halen Eruption - the tapping section is arpeggios but I think that's all you can relate to neoclassical rock.

The Beatles - She's so Heavy. I agree that the chord progression has semi classical structure. I think George Martin was the classical influence in the Beatles and they definately used that - Eleanor Rigby for example.

Some interesting thoughts alikid!

Just been watching Malmsteen on youtube and it reminds me how groundbreaking and influential he was.

I'm not actually that much of a Yngwie fan - much more into vinman, tmac, friedman and becker but Yngwie was the forerunner, and I suppose he's stuck to what he does best. I suppose he hasn't changed that much style wise over the years. But can you imagine Yngwie doing a pop, rap cross over, or country record?

I give him respect for sticking to his guns.

I can really really relate CASS with the dark music thing... I don't terribly like the Van Halen happy sound, and most of the dude you mentioned are my favs.

Wagner's "The Ring" is definitely an epic, I am sure you know it.

Do Gary Moore or Vivian Campbell count?

In terms of influence I would have to say Malmsteen could be credited with defining the genre early on, and Rhoads for knocking the wax out of the most people's ears, but if it weren't for Blackmore I doubt either of those guys would have went down the same path. Sky Overture was really something but I'm not convinced it got a great deal of exposure

I think it could have been Brian May, Ritchie Blackmore or Jimmy Page who inspired guitarists like Yngwie.

Like Yngwie said in the interview, he listened to Deep Purple and Ritchie Blackmore a lot, and he was directed to classical composers by Blackmore (and his own sister).

But I still think neoclassical wouldn't be what it is nowadays without Yngwie. He sort of made the genre its own.

I just heard new malmsteen album "perpetual flame". Its fuckin' good,and song death dealer becomes my favourite now.Yngwie recorded great album.

Yngwie hands down. Randy Rhoads sure helped (and regrettably didn't live long enough to do more), but the popularization and diffusion was mostly done by Yngwie.


Long live the King!

Agreed. Is Yngwie your fave guitarist then?