Do you think that Yngwie and co are subject to unfair criticism from other musicians and fans {they play with no emotion etc} or have you as a neoclassical fan found your taste in music scorned from the Neil Young/Eric Clapton brigade?

Its all relative as you post proves.

Many of the Neo-classical Shred persuasion would criticize Neil Young/Clapton fans as being a bunch of old time wanna be's who love dried up old dudes who stole the blues from Guys like Buddy Guy and BB King etc...

They would criticize as you have mentioned...
Really this is a non-argument, because its aesthetics and as we all know one mans 'BROWN SOUND' is another mans 'ITS THE BROWN SOUND BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE TURD'.

People will always criticize others for their tastes.

Fair enough but my point is, and I probably didn't explain it properly, that a lot of established rock guitarists who based their playing mainly on the pentatonic and blues scale were intimidated by the technical prowess of the Mike Varney/Shrapnel guitarists and because they knew they were inferior technically they jumped on the bandwagon at the time and slated these guitarists. When I first played Yngwie to a few session/jazz guitarists that I know who always scorned rock guitarists their jaws hit the ground but most of them didn't want to admit how talented he was though all of them asked me to record them some of his material. I think a lot of the bad stuff you heard about this emerging breed of rock player stemmed from jealousy.

This view on musicians and ultimately any other type of artists will always be present. I have seen it and talked about it time and time again. It is just out of ignorance, stubbornness, and image... Mainly ignorance. The majority of "musicians" out their have very little technical skill or theoretical knowledge for music. I am not saying that is a bad thing by any means... would we have blues if all musicians had level 3 theory? definitely not. The whole definition of blues is... ignorance, in a way. simple music, all based on the same progression with the same scale, and the same licks.

Musicians such as most classical musicians, many jazz musicians, and many other musicians, like Yngwie Malmsteen, have little to know ignorance of music. The fact is, with Yngwie or Bach or Miles Davis, their is far more there... They have all this knowledge and skill to pull from. BB King, has the blues scale to pull from. Fall Out Boy, has a couple power chords to pull from. Neil Young and Nirvana have some open chords and power chords to pull from. Britney Spears has... well... nothing to pull from. Mozart has... everything to pull from.

These musicians that limit themselves... not necessarily bad... but they have no right to comment on music that they cannot comprehend. When a good musician listens to Beethoven's 9th... they will pull out intervals, they will notice interesting or unique phrasing, they will comment to themselves... If Mrs. Spears hears Beethovens 9th its just pleasant noises (not even).

Yeah, I see peopel bashing the likes of Yngwie all the time, due to "MINDLESS SHREDDING WITH NO FEELING". Which to be honest makes me sick inside... it makes me want to hurt them, for their stupidity. If only they could just realize that it doesn't sound good to them because they are stupid. It seems mindless to them because they don't know what the major scale is... let alone the Phrygian Dominant. How can you argue that their is no feeling in Yngwie? Feeling and emotion occur in music when certain intervals are played together... This is thought of conscientiously when Yngwie or Niccolo Paganini are composing. When Neil Young writes he just, experiments with different chord combinations, and when one sounds good he uses it.

Now don't get me wrong I love Neil Young and his music, but you must realize how he writes, and with what knowledge. Little rant :P

Some Blues uses Major Modes like Mixolydian or Dorian. I guess that would make it more jazzy blues. I agree though that some of the advanced musicians get criticized too much. You can find a lot of these criticisms on Youtube looking through the comments.

I've had stuff like that happen at school, one kid said all i could do was shred lol.

"Your so terrible at guitar! all you can do is play with maximized technical ability and theoretical knowledge! THATS ALL YOU CAN DO!"

:huh:

Considering that shredding is also having maximum technical ability.

If my logic is correct... having maxed ability, would mean he could play everything under that level through to the maxed level of skill.

Sorry, I just felt like logically analyzing that statement of "all you can do is shred".

:D

In response to the stuff about musical knowledge and implementation... I think a big problem with music nowadays is that most people don't care about music. Most people love to listen to music, but they don't care about music itself. They want a pretty face or cool image, a steady beat, and a catchy chorus. That is music at its finest to most people.
Personally, I listen to a lot of progressive metal... bands like Dream Theater, Vanden Plas, Fates Warning, Adagio (Stephan Forte is KILLER on guitar), etc, etc. And, like many music lovers, I've put on many of my CDs for other people to hear. Over and over I get the same response from people about progressive metal... "It's good... I like it... but, there are too many instrumental pieces between the singing. Why is it so drawn out?" All I can do is sigh and think they are stupid for not understanding the musical genius of what they've just heard. The problem is that there is too much musical composition in progressive metal. People want their metal the same as they want their pop, country, etc... verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, chorus, the end. And they'd prefer if you keep the same beat through the entire song... ala rap.

I once got into an argument (shame on me) with a coworker about guitar players. He told me that Eric Clapton is the best guitar player. Instantly, I said "That's ridiculous! You may like his songs, but he's not a technically good player." So, he asked "Then... who do you think is better?" I said "I don't know... how about Jason Becker?" Of course he was like "Who? I've never even heard of him... who's he play for?" So, the next day, I brought my Perpetual Burn CD to work. A minute later his jaw was dropped and smoke was coming out of his ears as he tried to comprehend what he was hearing. He acknowledged defeat, but went on to say that he likes Eric Clapton because of his song writing and he can understand the music. Alright... can't argue with that.
So with that in mind, Eric Clapton is exponentially more successful and well-known than Jason Becker... because his music is simple enough for the common person to understand. But, if there were no vocals, I bet nobody would listen to him either.

But, to keep on topic and answer the original question. Yes, I think neoclassical guitarists are judged unfairly... to a certain degree. I think it's because they are dismissed so quickly... they are all assumed to be the same by non-fans of the genre. They're like "Shrapnel Records has recorded yet another neoclassical guitarist... I'm sure some diehard fans of the genre will pick this CD up; but, others precede with caution."

Nice comment xuelong. I have come across the scenario that you talked about so many times. I read in another post that you got into the genre at 15. Same for me man, back in 1985 when it all started.

I see that you are into prog rock. Have you heard any Circus Maximus or Time Requiem? The latter are probably classed a bit more in the neoclassical bracket however.

Yes, I like Circus Maximus a lot; but, have never heard of Time Requiem. I'll definitely have to check them out!

I am really into Spherical Universe Experience. The production quality of their CDs needs some work; but, the music is outstanding.

Another great, unheard-of prog band is PantomMind. I believe they're out of Bulgaria. They often sound like a cross between Fate's Warning and Dream Theater, without copying either one, and are just as good as either of them.

BTW, IbanezDaemon, sorry if I've hijacked the thread, but it's your thread and you asked me a question ;)

No worries man. Asking questions and sharing info is what it's all about.

Time requiem are a Swedish band formed by virtuoso keyboardist Patrick Andersson. They are probably best described as Neoclassical/Progressive rock so check them out. I think you can hear and see some of their stuff on youtube.

I'll see if I can dig up some material from the bands you have mentioned on the net. I am always on the lookout for new bands and musicians so thanx for the info. :)

Well put my friend, well put... I think this thread is a really good one, maybe even to show to friends whom have been consumed in the same situation? This thread is the explanation for what we find hard to explain... if you get my drift?

and thank you for the band/musician recommendations!

The American obsession with ignorance and the lowest common denominator has produced the most powerful music industry in the world. Simple sells, and as such the people who continue to buy stay simple

Luckily pop opinion is improving by leaps and bounds since Napster broke down the door. Listen to what's coming out of Japan, Sweden, and Finland nowadays and there's no shortage of band that sound like nothing you've heard before.

Just keep playing There's a new age rising as we speak

Wise words Jake! Good man! :)