Ok... I have been a T-Mac fan for a while, and when I heard Vinnie for the first time, I was amazed at how similar the playing was... I would've believed it was the same guy... listen to T-mac's first albums than listen to Moore's first, and the playing is so similar... tone, melodies... I did some research and I found out they both had the same producer, and record company (Shrapnel - just like many other shredders from that time), and Tony Macalpine played keyboards on Moore's first album... am I missing something? This is a long shot getting the answer I am looking for but whats going on? are they clones? Twins? jam buddies?

I guess they were inspired by Neo-Classical Metal at the same time. Vinnie Moore went away from Classical Metal and and did more rock and blues. MacAlpine stayed with Neo-Classical partially and started going more and more into Jazz Fusion. So they started similar but definitely grew away from what made them great imo. Time Odyssey from Vinnie Moore and Maximum Security from MacAlpine are unbelievable albums.

agreed 100% ^^^^

I haven't heard VM's albums, but definatly T-Mac's MS is amazing.

I agree as far as Mind's Eye and Time Odyssey sounding similar to Tony, but not identical. With Meltdown, Vinnie started sounding a lot more like Satriani than MacAlpine, but not that much.

I like Vinnie Moore's playing, have several of his albums. Meltdown and Out of Nowhere are totally rock, and Defying Gravity has a metal sound. Vinnie has his own style.

Wasn't too impressed with Defying Gravity. Maybe it has too much of a mature sound to it. Out of Nowhere isn't bad though. The Maze is probably my favorite of his later period. Still I think nothing compares to his first 2 albums.

A lot folks seem to like his first two albums the best. If you ever meet VInman in person, though, do not tell him that. If you read what he has to say in interviews about his stuff, the fact that folks prefer his first two albums frustrates him.

As a musician in my thirties, I can understand his frustration at this. Musicians want to feel like our music matures over time. To feel that one's musicianship peaked in one's early twenties and will jsut never get any better over the course of one's life would really suck.

Having yet to hear The Maze, my favorite VInman album is Out of Nowhere. His fast playing is cleaner here than on the earlier stuff, IMHO, and his melodic playing is truly amazing here. WHile I find April Sky to be a great tune, there is just no comparison between the emotion he conveys, the lyricism, and the overall beauty of April Sky, IMHO, and those same elements in She's Only Sleeping.

He burned out of Neo-Classical Metal he said on his forum. It's unfortunate about that since he is one of my biggest influences for this style. He really doesn't have a bad album but Neo-Classical is what put him on the map. He's not the only one that left it though. Everyone wants to branch out from Neo-Classical for whatever reason. If it makes him feel better, Time Odyssey is better than Mind's Eye. :D

That is a very good point. Everyone does seem to branch out form the NeoClassical stuff. I only have T-Mac's early stuff, but I understand he went the jazz/fusion route. I have "Eyes of the World", and I can hear where he was already moving a little away from Neoclassical there with those Styx-like vocals.

Even Yngwie, as he has gone along, has seemed to get more into the metal style and more away from the neoclassical with the exception of, of course, his Concerto for Electric Guitar and Orchestra.

I love Vinnie's later stuff, although his first 2 albums own... I think his later ones are up there as well, The Maze is fantastic.

i still think edge of insanity was one of the 10 best neoclassical recordings ever - i lost it - i need to order from guitar9.

I liked them both alot when they first came out but i would say Vinnie Moore is far from neo-classical of late pretty boring to me his last 3 or 4 cds. T-Mac is good but i dont like his tone.

They both seem to be running away from the neo classic tag wich is pretty lame beacuse thats what they do best . And niether of them i would say are metal . They have become more like morse wanna bee's then anything else .

Kotzen is the best good songs good playing blows them both away!

T-MACS TONE :ph43r:

MORSE WANNABEES :ph43r:

RITCHIE KOTZEN :ph43r:

YEs kotzen is a great player he did a lot of good shred cds on sharpnel better than both of the 2 u mention here . Check out some of his stuff with greg howe , 2 guys who play and have it all not just playing fast to a metromne.

Vinnie moore was great in the 80s the ufo thing is very stale and very boring . As said here pepole only really dig his first 2 lps .

Any one like the new winger?

Kotzen's new stuff is not amazing, however I cannot bash any musician of this calibre.

Greg Howe is a great player, I agree with you there, but I must disagree with the T-Mac, and Vinman comments.

Depends on what you like i like songs , not 76 minutes of mindless shred wich be honest all the sounds the same after one or 2 songs. Kotzen can sing play and write all around talent .

MacAlpine and Vinnie Moore is mindless shred? I don't think so.

iT is my thought yes all the new stuff .

Either we have extreme different tastes in music or you have not given T-Mac and Vinman a good enough listen. I appreciate your musical opinions, but considering you are a Neo-classical metal fan/musician/instrumental guitar fan... I cannot see how you couldn't like these guys. They are the kings of neo-classical metal along with Yngwie, which is why I wouldn't bash them on a Neo-Classical Forum. Anyways, I would suspect you haven't put in enough listening time for these musicians to appreciate them, however I don't know you so I don't know if thats the case. Anyways, there has gotta be a reason why you aren't feeling T-Mac and Vinman, because with your qualifications, I wouldn't imagine you not enjoying their music! -_-

I like them thats not what im saying just think its a bit much . I like more the kotzen style or winger style band stuff . Stuff that has a greater appeal than to just guitar players .

Vinman has been running away from that label for years so in a way i feel that he turned his back on it to be real for a minute . Since meltdown what has he done thats even remotley like his first lp? the maze has some neoclassicl fluffer throw in with 8 other songs that are really boring to listen to and way to melow to be called metal/

Great player no question but neo classical metal not .

Yngwie is reallty the only one that still metal or plays in a metal format these other guys are just making guitar player music .

I wouldnt call the maze or the newest vm metal at all.

Judas preist is metal not t-mac sorry.

I agree with that. Their old stuff I prefer to remember them by but I guess you have to be negative though and and think of that first. I've seen you on the Vinnie Moore site so I know you are a fan. Just not of the recent stuff I guess. Give them more props of what made them great.

Yeah i go to vinman forum to. But to be honest latley with all the crazy stuff going on there , its not fun . And the topic's are kind of boring you have good topic's here !

I see what your saying Cereal man!

The first albums definitely are the classics, however I do enjoy the later albums... the later albums really take a couple listens though, unlike the first couple, which you almost immediately like. At first listen the newer ones just don't seem that great especially with T-Macs, however after hearing them a couple times, it gets better. T-Mac gradually went downhill IMO, although he still does have some enjoyable material, Vinman didn't die off quite as bad though. In saying this, yes I believe the later albums aren't as good, however I still think they are good overall... just not as good. :)

and thanks for the complements on the forum! We do our best, and I haven't yet welcomed you! I hope you decide to stay for a while, its great to have more people/opinions. Welcome! :P

Ijust hate ufo , they are awful if you ask me. I dont get it at all with why pepole like them . Im just getting in to more soulful stuff as i get older and the new class of shredders like mab or rusty colley hhave nothing to offer thats complet midless shred , . The new shred stuff is just play fast thats it. But to each his own ! . Just my 2 cents ...Ha ha i dont even have 2 cents lol! My 2 food stamps is more like it huh?

Here is two cents... "hands you two cents"

But anyways, you got me started again! I LOVE UFO! (not their new stuff in particular... its music but, I wouldn't normally listen to it over their classic Schenker stuff, which I adore! Again, to enjoy UFO's later stuff it requires a couple more listens. Please tell me you like their early stuff?\

DOCTOR DOCTOR PLEASSSSEEEEEE, OHHHH THE MESS I'M IN!!!!! B)

Anyways, a real music critic you are Cereal man... I like you. And I agree with you for the most part other than the actual level that you express your opinions... you can't say you "hate" UFO... I mean... we hate "Fall Out Boy"... not UFO... you know? New UFO is definetly past it expirary date for great music, but its not at "hate" level?

Sorry no i just dont enjoy it its way before my time , im only 22.

There new stuff is just horrid i think when you get to a certian age you should just stop . Beacuse its quality not that there still around that matters and those last 2 lps have no quality to them . Many bands i feel this way about they are just trying to cash in one more time with out regard to the quality of the music .

I mean the first one they did with vm was almost all vm solo songs put to vocals how lame is that?

What is fall out boy?

I am 18 <_<

I agree with your comments on the later UFO music. But, not their classic stuff.

It is true... all these old bands squeezing money out of old fans... like look at U2, the Rolling Stones, Motley Crue... None of these bands where particularly good at all, now they are just garbage with their later albums that old fans are buy for god knows what reason, you know...

It's sad TBH, Motley Crue, rich bastards off their latest album that is a piece of shit (not say their old stuff is good cus it ain't)

Oh, and Fall Out Boy is a real garbage emo band... you know those ones put together by business men to make profit... you know? The ones that don't know how to play there instruments...

UFO would seem pretty old to you, I imagine. I'm 36, and I definitely think of them as an older band. Vinman, at 44, is the youngest member of their current line-up by a long shot. Phil Mogg, the singer, is like 60 years old. I personally enjoy the UFO albums with Michael Schenker on axe and the newer stuff with Vinman. I am also a fan of MSG and Vinman, with them right up there with Yngwie as being among my favorites.

You mentioned that you enjoy Winger!! They are also one of my favorites. Reb Beach is a great axe man, and Kip writes some meaningful lyrics. Winger was pretty popular in the late eighties and early nineties before grunge and alternative came along. Grunge/Alternative rock along with Beavis and Butthead came together to kill their album sales starting in around 1993. That dorky kid Stewart who always wanted to hang out with Beavis and Butthead had a Winger t-shirt. Once us young college dudes were into Beavis and Butthead and Stewart was seen with the t-shirt, Winger lost their popularity.

I put my t-shirt away, but I kept on enjoying their stuff. Their 1993 album "Pull" is, IMHO, their best album. I absolutely love this album. WOrd has it that Kip named the album this because of the poor sales he expected for the album. A real pity!!

I definitely disagree with the T-Mac comments. I love his newer fusion stuff as much as I loved his neoclassical stuff. He is a truly unbelievable musician. I don't think there are many that have reached his level. He has taken classical piano, neoclassical guitar, and fusion guitar and mastered them all at a prodigy level. Most musicians dream of doing just one of them as well as he can do all three.

On the other hand, I agree about Vinnie Moore. I loved his first couple, then turned away once he went bluesy rock. Meltdown was the last I had of his... it was good, but I'm easily turned off by happy bluesy guitars (satriani?).

Greg Howe is another phenom, in my opinion. Taking the T-Mac route from neoclassical to fusion (does anyone else here love fusion?) I thought Extraction was excellent. Weird how both Howe and MacAlpine connected with Dennis Chambers.

Kotzen took the same route, right? I remember I had one of his fusion CDs... The Inner Galactic Fusion Experience or something like that. Not the best.

I enjoyed Vinman's entire career more than I enjoyed T-Macs change in direction... although even then as I have said before both of their later stuff is amazing. Vinman's latest experiments with flamenco is great.

Lots of fusion fans here to xuelong! Frank Gambale is probably my favorite.